1 00:00:09,220 --> 00:00:11,970 I come from Myjava hillside fields. 2 00:00:12,140 --> 00:00:14,260 We were eight children. 3 00:00:15,370 --> 00:00:19,000 Dad and mom couldn't read nor write. 4 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:26,710 We lived near the woods, there we spent our childhood. 5 00:00:27,530 --> 00:00:30,320 We bred two goats which fed us. 6 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:37,420 After finishing six grades of folk school, 7 00:00:37,810 --> 00:00:40,950 director didn't want me to go to the town school, 8 00:00:42,340 --> 00:00:49,020 but then I go there and I finished four grades. 9 00:00:50,450 --> 00:00:56,900 Then I got trained in locksmithery in Dubnica nad Váhom. 10 00:00:56,900 --> 00:00:58,220 It's here. 11 00:00:59,420 --> 00:01:06,000 After apprenticeship I attended yearlong preparatory course. 12 00:01:07,450 --> 00:01:13,600 And in 1950 I became a student of the university in Praha. 13 00:01:13,700 --> 00:01:15,600 The case it was. 14 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,600 That time the recruitment of workers at the universities took place. 15 00:01:19,740 --> 00:01:21,260 Medical science too. 16 00:01:22,140 --> 00:01:25,880 Workers were needed at the medicine as well. 17 00:01:26,170 --> 00:01:28,820 They even graduated. 18 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:34,220 And since I was the chairman of the Socialistic Youth Union at the factory, 19 00:01:34,370 --> 00:01:38,600 they chose me and the whole committee. 20 00:01:40,340 --> 00:01:45,260 Those technically specialized went to Bratislava 21 00:01:45,770 --> 00:01:48,940 and we, specialized in humanities, went to Praha. 22 00:01:53,410 --> 00:01:54,880 I didn't want to go 23 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:01,250 to university, because I wanted to stay here. 24 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:11,370 But once I was leaving, the chief of cadre shouted at me: - "Come back!" 25 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:12,650 So I did it. 26 00:02:14,090 --> 00:02:20,120 It was in the 1950s, in 1949. 27 00:02:20,260 --> 00:02:25,860 And he told me: " Do you think, we Non-Roma, will solve the Roma question? 28 00:02:26,620 --> 00:02:30,970 "You will solve it yourself, that's why you'll go to university." 29 00:02:31,290 --> 00:02:32,370 "And get out!" 30 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,370 So, I went to university. 31 00:02:37,020 --> 00:02:39,170 It was terrible at first. 32 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,300 There were also grammar school students 33 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,870 they had their own study habits, 34 00:02:48,130 --> 00:02:49,870 but we didn't. 35 00:02:50,770 --> 00:02:52,760 I was lucky. 36 00:02:53,220 --> 00:02:57,890 Some Novotný from České Budějovice lived with me. 37 00:02:59,140 --> 00:03:01,370 He was the one 38 00:03:01,370 --> 00:03:02,670 from the group working 39 00:03:02,670 --> 00:03:11,920 on the agricultural farmhouses. 40 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:14,270 He was the leader of this group. 41 00:03:14,620 --> 00:03:16,500 And we became great friends. 42 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:21,050 He'd been familiarizing me with the study gradually, 43 00:03:21,140 --> 00:03:26,020 He is saying: "You can't read every single word, but the main idea is important." 44 00:03:27,180 --> 00:03:34,720 Interestingly, I passed the final exams with better mark then him. 45 00:03:35,450 --> 00:03:38,890 At that time the Slovaks were at this university. 46 00:03:39,890 --> 00:03:46,220 They were graduates of the political-social university. 47 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:47,520 It was a predecessor. 48 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:54,820 There were one Slovak woman who perhaps had a patronage over me. 49 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:01,870 If it was possible, she used to check my notes and always wrote me: 50 00:04:01,980 --> 00:04:03,690 I enjoy you are good. 51 00:04:10,660 --> 00:04:14,690 So this way they kept me there. 52 00:04:20,250 --> 00:04:23,000 Otherwise, I can"t complain. 53 00:04:23,460 --> 00:04:30,170 One Roma, Daniel, studied with me the history. 54 00:04:30,850 --> 00:04:33,410 He graduated from 55 00:04:34,260 --> 00:04:35,620 the history. 56 00:04:35,930 --> 00:04:41,700 Bartolomej Daniel from Kuklov. 57 00:04:44,090 --> 00:04:46,770 And one more Roma was there. 58 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,520 Some Držka from Brezová. 59 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,690 But I don't know what happened with him. 60 00:04:54,210 --> 00:04:58,280 I have no ethnic problems at the university, 61 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:03,520 because there were also Chinese, Indonesian or Bulgarian students. 62 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,570 I had a friend from Bulgaria. 63 00:05:07,020 --> 00:05:10,920 Poles and Hungarians also studied there. 64 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,940 So there wasn't any ethnic problem. 65 00:05:14,050 --> 00:05:17,410 But this kind of problem was later, when I came to Košice. 66 00:05:18,180 --> 00:05:27,090 because people there weren't accustomed to have Roma as a supervisor. 67 00:05:27,330 --> 00:05:29,120 And not even a judge. 68 00:05:30,100 --> 00:05:32,220 Everyone was curious about me. 69 00:05:33,380 --> 00:05:34,250 You know? 70 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,400 But later it was better, 71 00:05:39,860 --> 00:05:43,080 and I have no ethnic conflicts. 72 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,020 Quite the reverse. 73 00:05:45,820 --> 00:05:47,580 The whole Poprad greeted me. 74 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,560 The elderly still know me, when I come there. 75 00:05:54,050 --> 00:06:01,720 I was a student of the College of political and economic sciences in Praha. 76 00:06:01,860 --> 00:06:08,380 It was the collage controlled by Slanský, Secretary-General at that time. 77 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,180 But then criminal proceedings against him began 78 00:06:15,860 --> 00:06:21,980 and it ended by his death, by hanging, 79 00:06:22,380 --> 00:06:27,980 and our school was divided. 80 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:36,880 Part of philosophy and history went to the faculty, 81 00:06:37,690 --> 00:06:39,500 to Charles University. 82 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:43,540 Economics went to Economic University. 83 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:48,800 and we went to Internal Administration. 84 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:55,320 We graduated as the lawyers of administrative law. 85 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,520 Then I got the job admittance to Košice. 86 00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:12,100 As to the period of the proceeding with Slanský, 87 00:07:13,970 --> 00:07:20,300 I hate to mention it, but the truth is, that the meetings took place at that time, 88 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:28,100 and members of Union, partyliners, state authorities demanded 89 00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:33,000 Slanský and his group to be sentenced to death. 90 00:07:33,610 --> 00:07:40,680 When they were discussing it, Gottwald talked about 91 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:45,940 11 years of imprisonment and other three will be released. 92 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:55,700 London, who wrote a book about this investigation period, was among them. 93 00:07:58,690 --> 00:08:02,340 After finishing college in 1954 94 00:08:02,860 --> 00:08:06,820 I got the job admittance to the Regional National Committee in Košice 95 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,540 as a referent for nationalities. 96 00:08:10,020 --> 00:08:12,560 But, in practice, it was just for the Roma. 97 00:08:16,940 --> 00:08:18,960 So I started to work. 98 00:08:21,450 --> 00:08:28,020 First of all, I was aware that without statistics nothing can be done. 99 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,420 So I received an approval from the chairman of Regional National Committee Michal Chudík, 100 00:08:34,420 --> 00:08:37,460 later he was the chairman of the National Council, 101 00:08:38,500 --> 00:08:42,180 until 1989. 102 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,500 So I compiled such a family questionnaire. 103 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:54,980 I considered the family everyone who had children. 104 00:08:55,770 --> 00:09:01,810 Thus, if they lived together but had no children, it wasn't a family for me. 105 00:09:02,810 --> 00:09:09,260 It took almost a year, until filled-in questionnaires were sent to me. 106 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,890 Later on, I summarized it maybe for about a month. 107 00:09:13,660 --> 00:09:20,320 It was in 1955. 108 00:09:21,610 --> 00:09:29,500 At that time 43,000 Roma were in Košice region. 109 00:09:29,780 --> 00:09:34,060 But it was a period of a big migration to Czech Republic. 110 00:09:35,380 --> 00:09:43,780 So everyone from Čierna nad Tisou and Michalovce went to the Czech Republic. 111 00:09:44,340 --> 00:09:52,200 It's hard to say whether this number was real, or not. 112 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:57,470 But in time when the record was made, it was 43,000. 113 00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:05,840 This record must be archived somewhere in the Regional National Committee in Košice. 114 00:10:06,940 --> 00:10:08,300 There were exact data, 115 00:10:11,380 --> 00:10:17,600 as how far is the settlement from the village, how many children are there, 116 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:22,720 how many pensioners, invalids and everything was there. 117 00:10:23,090 --> 00:10:30,840 Then I got an invitation from The Ministry of Justice, 118 00:10:30,890 --> 00:10:35,000 as there was the recruitment to the justice and prosecution. 119 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:39,060 So I signed up for the justice 120 00:10:39,700 --> 00:10:46,920 and I was appointed at the beginning of 1956 121 00:10:48,580 --> 00:10:50,200 as a judge to Žilina. 122 00:10:50,370 --> 00:10:53,100 But the Easterners already new me. 123 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,990 They said: "You cannot run from the east, you will stay here!" 124 00:10:56,990 --> 00:10:58,600 I said, allright. 125 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,420 Czechs used to say before that Slovakia ends in Štrba 126 00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:05,680 and the rest it's Balkan. 127 00:11:05,850 --> 00:11:08,840 So I said: "Good, I want to go to Poprad." 128 00:11:09,050 --> 00:11:15,100 They changed my letter of appointment and I became a judge in Poprad. 129 00:11:15,900 --> 00:11:19,720 It was in 1956. 130 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,740 So we judged. 131 00:11:26,610 --> 00:11:31,620 You know, I was the first Roma who was a judge on the east. 132 00:11:33,420 --> 00:11:38,350 And people used to say among themselves: 133 00:11:38,350 --> 00:11:40,560 "Who will be judging you, that Gypsy?" 134 00:11:41,180 --> 00:11:45,840 Usually I went around and I said: "Yes, that Gypsy, it's me." 135 00:11:47,050 --> 00:11:49,100 And people got used to it. 136 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,100 Then I enforced in the District National Committee 137 00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:58,670 that in electing of judges from common people we had ten Romani judges. 138 00:11:58,670 --> 00:12:00,060 Well, it was a big thing. 139 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:03,310 Really big thing. 140 00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:09,630 It happens many times when we were three Roma judging 141 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,320 and convicts went out and said: 142 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:18,120 "If anyone had judged me, but the Gypsies sentenced me!" 143 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,400 But it came close because 144 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,210 there was no other possible action. 145 00:12:27,210 --> 00:12:32,040 There were also people talking that: "Why couldn't he be a judge when he finished the collage?" 146 00:12:32,820 --> 00:12:36,360 By the way, I was very strict as to the Romani fights, 147 00:12:37,220 --> 00:12:39,310 because they weren't easy. 148 00:12:39,310 --> 00:12:43,900 When it came to the fight somewhere, twenty people and three houses vanished. 149 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,980 Those who have been judged already two or three times, 150 00:12:49,980 --> 00:12:52,670 went straight to the prison. 151 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:58,510 If I stayed in Poprad ten years more, there are no Gypsy fights now. 152 00:13:02,330 --> 00:13:06,590 In these fights people even used axes on each other. 153 00:13:08,690 --> 00:13:11,020 So it was. 154 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:17,630 When I worked in the court, one defense lawyer came there from Praha, 155 00:13:17,630 --> 00:13:20,590 it was doctor Pospíšil. 156 00:13:22,730 --> 00:13:25,680 He came to Stará Ľubovňa. 157 00:13:25,810 --> 00:13:27,580 And once when we were sitting, I asked: 158 00:13:27,580 --> 00:13:31,810 "Why did you come from Praha to Stará Ľubovňa:" 159 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:36,800 "Well, I worked at the General Prosecutor Office in Praha 160 00:13:36,930 --> 00:13:42,080 and I refused to participate in the investigation of Slanský". 161 00:13:44,130 --> 00:13:49,900 "So I promptly left with my wife to Stará Ľubovňa." 162 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,040 But his wife divorced him after one year, 163 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,290 because it was terrible in Stará Ľubovňa at that time. 164 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:04,120 We met each other after 1989 in Praha. 165 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,150 He already worked at the General Prosecutor Office. 166 00:14:07,370 --> 00:14:11,570 I asked him whether they apologized, but he said no. 167 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:20,940 As to the performance I was assessed as the best one in Košice region. 168 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,020 Lot of people envied. 169 00:14:23,410 --> 00:14:27,650 I got to the conflict with the president of county court, 170 00:14:27,650 --> 00:14:32,170 because he said I favor Gypsies. 171 00:14:32,690 --> 00:14:34,410 And this made me feel indignant. 172 00:14:35,020 --> 00:14:36,900 So I said I'm leaving. 173 00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:42,320 And Bratislavans try to soften me 174 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:43,400 to think it over. 175 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,400 But I was determined to leave, 176 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:47,970 so I left. 177 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,960 I work as a machine fitter for one year 178 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:54,600 in Tatravagonka in Poprad. 179 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:03,200 I earned 1,800 crowns as a judge and 3,500 crowns as a machine fitter. 180 00:15:04,290 --> 00:15:05,730 So it was a good deal. 181 00:15:08,170 --> 00:15:13,370 Then I had a friend here in Trenčín, who came from Tatry. 182 00:15:13,660 --> 00:15:15,020 And once he called me: 183 00:15:15,020 --> 00:15:17,020 "I have a job for you." 184 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,670 So I came to Trenčín as a lawyer on the Source. 185 00:15:23,570 --> 00:15:27,690 People from Dubnica learned that I got trained, 186 00:15:27,690 --> 00:15:32,100 that I am here, so the deputy came for me. 187 00:15:32,330 --> 00:15:37,630 So then I worked at the juridical department in Dubnica, 188 00:15:37,630 --> 00:15:39,570 what was really big department 189 00:15:39,570 --> 00:15:43,790 because there was about 12,000 employees. 190 00:15:44,340 --> 00:15:48,300 Practically, I came through the entire republic 191 00:15:49,260 --> 00:15:50,930 as a lawyer. 192 00:15:50,930 --> 00:15:52,130 Later 193 00:15:52,980 --> 00:15:58,680 I went to the Gypsies-Roma Union. 194 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,080 Dedicated facility was set up there. 195 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,880 Firstly I worked there in manufacturing, later I became a director. 196 00:16:06,980 --> 00:16:08,350 Afterwards I was dismissed, 197 00:16:09,050 --> 00:16:10,400 I came to Trenčín 198 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:15,980 and again I worked as a lawyer at the investment department until my retirement. 199 00:16:18,810 --> 00:16:22,480 As to the Gypsy-Roma Union, 200 00:16:24,940 --> 00:16:29,050 it was the organization with inner power. 201 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:36,590 Every district had one worker from this Union, 202 00:16:36,590 --> 00:16:38,700 which was in charge of Roma. 203 00:16:38,850 --> 00:16:42,270 There was very good cooperation with the District National Committee. 204 00:16:43,690 --> 00:16:47,980 It was in Sečovce, I remember, 205 00:16:49,930 --> 00:16:53,420 in Trebišov, in Košice, 206 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,320 also in Prešov. 207 00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:58,040 Then it was in Galanta, 208 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,770 and also 209 00:17:03,450 --> 00:17:04,890 in Nitra. 210 00:17:05,330 --> 00:17:08,670 Members of Union in these town often met. 211 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,440 There was one group in Bratislava, I remember, 212 00:17:13,420 --> 00:17:20,180 where Facuna and Bihári belonged. 213 00:17:20,620 --> 00:17:24,560 There was also one Roma from Levice, director of school. 214 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,690 Deceased Jano Cibuľa. 215 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,250 They all took part in the meetings. 216 00:17:30,530 --> 00:17:35,350 I came to the first conference.. 217 00:17:36,180 --> 00:17:40,360 I know Facuna published bulletins about Roma. 218 00:17:41,090 --> 00:17:41,930 Three. 219 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,660 I had them, but I don't know were they disappeared. 220 00:17:47,730 --> 00:17:51,200 Facuna used to go to the authorities 221 00:17:51,370 --> 00:17:53,080 as a poor man. 222 00:17:56,580 --> 00:17:59,630 When union was registered already, 223 00:17:59,630 --> 00:18:03,680 nobody wanted to give him the rooms. 224 00:18:06,500 --> 00:18:07,610 When Russians came, 225 00:18:09,380 --> 00:18:13,340 he went to commander of Bratislava, certain general, 226 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:18,650 which interceded for them to give him the rooms. 227 00:18:18,810 --> 00:18:20,340 It was in... 228 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:24,260 When did the Russians come? 229 00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:26,160 Yeas, in 1968. 230 00:18:26,740 --> 00:18:29,910 At the beginning of 1969, 231 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:41,630 Yes, at the beginning of 1969 Facuna got the office rooms. 232 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,140 When Facuna was dismissed, 233 00:18:45,410 --> 00:18:47,010 certain Daniel 234 00:18:49,020 --> 00:18:51,300 became a director. 235 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,300 It was a man, which 236 00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,820 didn't know write nor read well. 237 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:02,830 So then the Union 238 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,700 came off worst. 239 00:19:07,130 --> 00:19:08,910 It was closed out, 240 00:19:09,130 --> 00:19:14,170 because everything in reviving process was bad. 241 00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:16,700 The Union was established in the reviving process, 242 00:19:16,810 --> 00:19:19,330 so it was abolished together with Butiker. 243 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:22,410 It was in 244 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:26,400 1973. 245 00:19:26,660 --> 00:19:29,700 Butiker started sometime in 1970. 246 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,810 Then came the liquidation. 247 00:19:34,490 --> 00:19:37,010 The liquidation of Butiker. 248 00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:41,560 About 70 million crowns left there 249 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,560 and it went to the National front. 250 00:19:45,770 --> 00:19:48,880 Butiker and The Union were slandered, 251 00:19:49,980 --> 00:19:52,080 that everything was 252 00:19:53,170 --> 00:19:55,030 because of misappropriation. 253 00:19:55,290 --> 00:19:58,200 But no one Roma in Slovakia 254 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,540 was condemned of misappropriation of their own enterprise. 255 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,560 Though Non-Roma were condemned. 256 00:20:07,860 --> 00:20:11,560 But, unfortunately, this way it was spoke to public. 257 00:20:11,890 --> 00:20:15,530 The last Chief of Butiker was... 258 00:20:17,290 --> 00:20:21,040 the farmer from Michalovce. 259 00:20:21,730 --> 00:20:22,480 Bánoš. 260 00:20:24,010 --> 00:20:26,280 Yes, I think it was Ing. Bánoš. 261 00:20:29,330 --> 00:20:30,250 In the meantime, 262 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,930 sure, in 70s the first Gypsy-Roma Union 263 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,100 was formed. 264 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,620 Well, I became a substitute of Central Committee, 265 00:20:43,540 --> 00:20:46,620 but after half a year I became a member of chairmanship. 266 00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:51,580 Then... 267 00:20:52,580 --> 00:20:55,930 Then I was dismissed as a director 268 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,960 and they also dismissed Facuna. 269 00:21:02,540 --> 00:21:05,300 Facuna was a weird figure. 270 00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:10,210 Nobody knew about him from where he came. 271 00:21:10,210 --> 00:21:12,690 We only knew he was a surveyor. 272 00:21:14,590 --> 00:21:17,150 And last time he did 273 00:21:19,150 --> 00:21:23,010 a building inspector for Building Constructions Company in Bratislava. 274 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,590 I've never known 275 00:21:29,100 --> 00:21:30,570 who he is. 276 00:21:30,570 --> 00:21:33,930 I knew he came from Martin, 277 00:21:33,930 --> 00:21:40,430 because the only Facunas' in Slovakia were the Gypsies in Martin. 278 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:45,270 Even though I tried to inform, nobody said anything. 279 00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:49,960 Until recently, about three years ago, 280 00:21:50,610 --> 00:21:55,830 an article with the title "Who was Facuna?" 281 00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:57,250 appeared in Pravda news. 282 00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:59,950 So I learned, 283 00:21:59,950 --> 00:22:04,680 he was a member of English mission 284 00:22:06,030 --> 00:22:10,750 set out to help the Slovak National Uprising. 285 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:12,890 They were eight members, 286 00:22:13,050 --> 00:22:16,070 but only Facuna remained. 287 00:22:19,330 --> 00:22:26,290 Later, sometime in 80s, or in the half of 90s, 288 00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:32,860 a book about this English mission was published in America. 289 00:22:34,130 --> 00:22:38,840 In the book it is mentioned that only Facuna is alive. 290 00:22:39,010 --> 00:22:42,110 After his death Ministry of National Defence 291 00:22:42,110 --> 00:22:45,290 stated Facuna 292 00:22:45,810 --> 00:22:48,700 honour in memoriam. 293 00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:50,480 His son received it for him. 294 00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:55,700 I've never understood why they chased Facuna. 295 00:22:57,430 --> 00:23:03,130 In this period of time everything in the Second front 296 00:23:03,370 --> 00:23:05,580 was a class enemy. 297 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,850 And Facuna was also one of them, 298 00:23:08,210 --> 00:23:09,730 that's why he was dismissed. 299 00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:16,010 I remember very well 300 00:23:17,050 --> 00:23:21,160 the establishment of the so-called Slovak state. 301 00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:27,090 At that time, a director of the school on our solitary hillsides was some Kukliš. 302 00:23:27,090 --> 00:23:28,440 He was a guardsman. 303 00:23:28,970 --> 00:23:30,850 He organized... 304 00:23:31,780 --> 00:23:36,530 he organized the radio listening, 305 00:23:37,930 --> 00:23:43,880 where Ďurčanský declared the Slovak state. 306 00:23:45,890 --> 00:23:47,950 Well, but villagers didn't know 307 00:23:47,950 --> 00:23:53,100 what, actually, this Slovak state was, we didn't feel it 308 00:23:53,730 --> 00:23:54,390 at all. 309 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,050 I also remember, when we 310 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,950 attended folk school, 311 00:24:00,950 --> 00:24:03,250 Hlinka Youth was founded that time. 312 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,410 And we had one 313 00:24:05,690 --> 00:24:09,810 such a fiery schoolmate who said: 314 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,100 "We don't want Hlinka Youth, but Štefánik Youth." 315 00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:17,920 You know, evangelical region. 316 00:24:18,540 --> 00:24:22,240 Well, but it didn't happen. 317 00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:24,730 So it was. 318 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,010 How did we live in the Slovak state? 319 00:24:30,540 --> 00:24:31,990 Opinions are different. 320 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,890 But there wasn't enough food. 321 00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:38,870 There existed vouchers for 322 00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:41,730 unemployment support. 323 00:24:44,570 --> 00:24:49,920 It meant that people, dependent on those vouchers, had to come to town, 324 00:24:50,650 --> 00:24:55,880 everyone got the broom to sweep the streets. 325 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,770 Town security men then 326 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,780 checked whether it was done. 327 00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:11,210 After this work people got tickets worth of ten crowns with a stamp. 328 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,410 And they couldn't go shopping wherever, 329 00:25:13,410 --> 00:25:18,120 but they had to go exactly to the store designed for it. 330 00:25:22,690 --> 00:25:25,380 Unfortunately, we ate even bean bread. 331 00:25:26,210 --> 00:25:31,180 Some millers used to give also beans to the grain. 332 00:25:31,580 --> 00:25:37,540 And when a bread was baked, its lower part was so dense. 333 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,580 I also remember the rise of the uprising. 334 00:25:42,700 --> 00:25:44,520 We lived near the woods. 335 00:25:48,490 --> 00:25:55,280 The commander of partisans in Myjavsko, Miloš Uher and others 336 00:25:55,690 --> 00:25:57,510 used to go to us. 337 00:25:59,050 --> 00:26:02,570 I also remember the military unit Vlasovci. 338 00:26:04,210 --> 00:26:05,050 Yeah. 339 00:26:07,260 --> 00:26:11,160 Among them were aslo Kromovci, who used to go to us too. 340 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,870 But it was fun with them. 341 00:26:14,660 --> 00:26:17,660 They cannot speak Romani, nor Russian, 342 00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:20,720 because they came from Kyrgyzstan usually. 343 00:26:21,730 --> 00:26:24,250 But we had a fun with them. 344 00:26:24,490 --> 00:26:26,130 They danced with us. 345 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,630 Father played them on the violin. 346 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:37,400 I remember when first Russian soldiers came to our village. 347 00:26:38,890 --> 00:26:40,970 That time we were just doing a fence, 348 00:26:42,780 --> 00:26:46,330 when Russian soldiers began to laugh: 349 00:26:46,330 --> 00:26:49,160 "See, Gypsies are working." 350 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:56,370 And I've never known why they said that. 351 00:26:56,930 --> 00:27:02,500 Only then, when I met with Ukrainians and they told us: 352 00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:06,890 "In our country, Gypsies don't work, they cheat." 353 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,850 They simply cheat. 354 00:27:10,690 --> 00:27:16,410 So then I realized what those Russian soldiers meant 355 00:27:16,410 --> 00:27:19,870 saying with laugh: "Gypsies are working." 356 00:27:22,780 --> 00:27:27,840 The concentration camp for Roma was here in Dubnica. 357 00:27:28,490 --> 00:27:34,770 They worked on the construction of hydroelectric power plant 358 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,690 but in disastrous conditions. 359 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,540 There were Roma from the east but also local ones. 360 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:48,510 And then 361 00:27:51,220 --> 00:27:59,020 at the beginning of 1944 was necessary to add some other Roma. 362 00:28:00,170 --> 00:28:02,610 But the front was already close. 363 00:28:03,930 --> 00:28:07,890 Our father was also waiting every day that they'll come for him 364 00:28:07,890 --> 00:28:09,890 to go work to Dubnica, 365 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,710 but it didn't happen. 366 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,370 The book came out, 367 00:28:18,580 --> 00:28:22,260 the book about this concentration camp. 368 00:28:22,260 --> 00:28:28,620 It was written by professor Nádejný from Púchov. 369 00:28:28,930 --> 00:28:31,490 The book came out all over Slovakia. 370 00:28:31,610 --> 00:28:35,580 It must be somewhere, but I didn't get it. 371 00:28:36,610 --> 00:28:37,520 Yeah. 372 00:28:38,300 --> 00:28:41,490 So immediately after war, 373 00:28:43,930 --> 00:28:51,010 when Russians came, the concentration camp was fired and it burnt down. 374 00:28:52,300 --> 00:28:54,400 It is written in this book, 375 00:28:55,290 --> 00:28:58,160 about the exact place, where it was located. 376 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,960 I know as I was there, 377 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,660 because I mapped the people still living at that time, 378 00:29:07,410 --> 00:29:08,530 those from the camp. 379 00:29:08,530 --> 00:29:10,920 That all is in this book. 380 00:29:15,620 --> 00:29:17,740 But one thing 381 00:29:17,740 --> 00:29:21,240 can't be forgotten. 382 00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:26,420 There appeared a typhoid fever in that camp. 383 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,570 And Germans were afraid. 384 00:29:29,570 --> 00:29:37,220 Because it was a factory producing aircraft and weapon engines for Germans. 385 00:29:37,410 --> 00:29:41,010 So they were afraid the civilians could get that disease too. 386 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:46,170 Thus, Germans put the people in the car and took them to the big valley in Dubnica. 387 00:29:46,370 --> 00:29:50,130 They digged up the hole and there they shot them all. 388 00:29:50,130 --> 00:29:51,820 There's a memorial. 389 00:29:56,610 --> 00:29:58,530 It was identified 390 00:29:58,610 --> 00:30:00,570 who exactly was there. 391 00:30:00,570 --> 00:30:04,460 One man of our family, some Herald from Stará Turá, remained there. 392 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,380 Yes, it was in 1946, or in 1947. 393 00:30:13,330 --> 00:30:15,920 The main speaker was 394 00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:19,450 Marián the Great, 395 00:30:20,750 --> 00:30:26,650 who was a professor at the Faculty of Law in Bratislava. 396 00:30:26,850 --> 00:30:28,770 He lectured on criminal law. 397 00:30:30,530 --> 00:30:34,150 This person is alive and he had a leading talk. 398 00:30:34,580 --> 00:30:37,420 In Žilina it was the conference about Roma. 399 00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:41,650 It was called specially, I don't know who, actually, did it, 400 00:30:41,650 --> 00:30:49,110 whether former Ministry, or political party. 401 00:30:49,250 --> 00:30:53,160 But at that time, the party wasn't a leading power. 402 00:30:53,540 --> 00:30:57,930 Thus,someone from state administration must did it. 403 00:30:59,050 --> 00:31:00,920 I know who was there from Považie, 404 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,300 but they're already deceased. 405 00:31:04,940 --> 00:31:07,440 Everyone is afraid to talk about it. 406 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,490 First report I gave to the council of the District Natiaonal Committee, 407 00:31:14,490 --> 00:31:17,390 was the situation in education 408 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,440 and construction of family houses. 409 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,110 It wast the most important. 410 00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:26,050 That time, 411 00:31:29,940 --> 00:31:34,250 once a year the question of 412 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,850 Romani children at school was solved 413 00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:46,450 by the chairmanship of the Distric National Committe, 414 00:31:46,650 --> 00:31:53,490 because the head of the union was responsible for the solving of the Romani issue in the district. 415 00:31:54,260 --> 00:31:58,430 The report about it had to be very detailed. 416 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,650 How many children finished the fourth grade. 417 00:32:02,730 --> 00:32:05,450 How many it was in the fifth, 418 00:32:05,620 --> 00:32:07,430 sixth, seventh and eighth grade. 419 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,490 Usually it was the fourth and fifth grade. 420 00:32:11,530 --> 00:32:14,080 Then the conclusions were made. 421 00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:22,330 There had to be given reports 422 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:27,490 with number of Romani pupils which went to the training institution 423 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,910 and which went to the grammar school. 424 00:32:30,220 --> 00:32:32,770 It had to be accurate. 425 00:32:35,220 --> 00:32:36,630 Teachers had a bonus, 426 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,330 I think it was 600 crowns per month. 427 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:43,690 So it was getting on well. 428 00:32:44,260 --> 00:32:49,790 Even the most Romani boys and girls 429 00:32:49,890 --> 00:32:53,670 finished the school at that time. 430 00:32:54,410 --> 00:32:56,690 Sad to say, at present it's too little. 431 00:32:57,250 --> 00:33:02,860 More than 200 Roma studied at universities. 432 00:33:03,770 --> 00:33:06,210 Today I can count them on the fingers of one hand. 433 00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:10,070 Because it was monitored. 434 00:33:10,540 --> 00:33:12,990 It wasn't presented outwardly, 435 00:33:13,210 --> 00:33:15,130 but it had to be monitored. 436 00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:20,240 Then I wrote to the report, 437 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,970 that the settlements were the part of the district. 438 00:33:27,860 --> 00:33:35,180 It means the municipality was obliged to care about Roma as well. 439 00:33:35,860 --> 00:33:38,210 And I put in the resolution, that 440 00:33:38,210 --> 00:33:42,500 the construction of new family houses 441 00:33:42,690 --> 00:33:47,910 must be done just within the town residential area. 442 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,600 Since the settlement wasn't in the town residential area, 443 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,920 the houses had to be built in the village. 444 00:33:54,290 --> 00:33:55,770 Even it happened so. 445 00:33:56,420 --> 00:33:59,800 Poprad district has a number of villages, 446 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,030 though it's extended... 447 00:34:03,780 --> 00:34:04,560 You know. 448 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,080 Roma lived together but they are part of the village. 449 00:34:08,700 --> 00:34:12,450 Nobody deals with it for now. 450 00:34:13,260 --> 00:34:14,970 as nobody knows a lot about it. 451 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,410 Also I would say, 452 00:34:19,410 --> 00:34:27,840 at that time many villages exploited when Roma worked. 453 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,840 The houses were built. 454 00:34:29,980 --> 00:34:35,120 In Jarovnice, there is the street constructed when Communism ruled. 455 00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:38,330 One side and another too. 456 00:34:39,490 --> 00:34:43,680 Everyone got 800 squere metres of the land 457 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,680 and there the house was built. 458 00:34:47,240 --> 00:34:53,650 The mayors used to visit employers and say: 459 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,890 "This citizen will build the house, try to help them." 460 00:34:59,290 --> 00:35:00,490 And they helped. 461 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,480 Since then no new houses have been built. 462 00:35:07,580 --> 00:35:08,460 So 463 00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:11,430 we can't compare it. 464 00:35:12,860 --> 00:35:15,870 That time when Roma came to the District Committee 465 00:35:16,260 --> 00:35:21,030 and complained that their colleagues gave him a hard time, 466 00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:22,860 it was solved immediately. 467 00:35:22,860 --> 00:35:26,030 A supervisor or a director were warned: 468 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:28,420 "Either you will put things right, 469 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:31,920 or we can say goodbye." 470 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:34,970 Today no one can say it like this. 471 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,710 I didn't participate in the Velvet Revolution, 472 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,440 because we were outside Bratislava. 473 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,410 Demonstrating people jingled by the keys during the revolution, 474 00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:50,050 but they probably didn't know, what was waiting for them. 475 00:35:50,540 --> 00:35:52,340 If they knew that 476 00:35:52,860 --> 00:36:00,380 there will be a change of social ownership to private ownership 477 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,450 and unemployment, they wouldn't do that for sure. 478 00:36:09,810 --> 00:36:12,100 Later, as I've already mentioned, 479 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,860 the union was established thanks to Facuna 480 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,800 and several another people in Bratislava. 481 00:36:19,940 --> 00:36:22,240 I participated in it, 482 00:36:24,020 --> 00:36:28,410 but over the ten last years, 483 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,800 but it's no longer a custom to call us elders 484 00:36:32,860 --> 00:36:34,460 to discuss 485 00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:38,110 what was wrong at that time and what is now. 486 00:36:40,930 --> 00:36:42,880 In eighties 487 00:36:44,810 --> 00:36:46,760 I already worked in Trenčín, 488 00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:50,300 because my wife worked there 489 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,230 at the extended workplace 490 00:36:53,850 --> 00:36:55,330 in the DC of the Communists. 491 00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:00,600 So i got to the Merina as an investment lawyer. 492 00:37:01,090 --> 00:37:04,800 Then I left and went to Brno to Ščuk. 493 00:37:06,420 --> 00:37:08,650 as he opened the operation there, 494 00:37:09,220 --> 00:37:14,780 they needed machines and people, so they took me there. 495 00:37:15,260 --> 00:37:17,780 I worked at Ščuk in Praha 496 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:19,860 for twelve years. 497 00:37:20,980 --> 00:37:25,250 I also participated in the Romani issue in Czech Republic. 498 00:37:25,370 --> 00:37:26,810 I know it all there. 499 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,420 That time it was within the RCI 500 00:37:29,620 --> 00:37:32,900 Though I wasn't member of the Romani Citizens' Initiative, they called me everywhere. 501 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,900 I remember something from the politics, 502 00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:45,290 but what has happened, 503 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:48,840 is the shame of Slovakia. 504 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:59,050 Banská Bystrica is also a big shame. 505 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,280 Nobody dealt with it. 506 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:03,640 Nobody. 507 00:38:06,780 --> 00:38:08,460 The situation is as it is, 508 00:38:08,460 --> 00:38:12,740 And I don't see the position of Roma would improve. 509 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,800 When Roma don't help themselves, 510 00:38:17,580 --> 00:38:20,910 there is no one who would help them. 511 00:38:21,380 --> 00:38:26,150 Even if there are some promises, they are empty words. 512 00:38:27,850 --> 00:38:29,070 Unfortunately. 513 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,140 Because 514 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,280 I can't understand how 6-member family from the settlement 515 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:44,480 in Eastern Slovakia with an income of 150 € 516 00:38:45,980 --> 00:38:47,240 can exist on it. 517 00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:54,050 Which statesman would be able to live from it? 518 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,680 Roma suffered for everything 519 00:39:01,370 --> 00:39:02,350 first. 520 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:03,900 So... 521 00:39:04,930 --> 00:39:05,730 As I said... 522 00:39:06,580 --> 00:39:11,650 If they don't help themselves, there is no way to help them. 523 00:39:11,900 --> 00:39:16,140 Unfortunately, there is the European Union, 524 00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:20,060 which keeps wing over the Roma. 525 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,590 Otherwise the municipalities 526 00:39:26,370 --> 00:39:28,800 would have preferred to get rid of the Roma. 527 00:39:35,260 --> 00:39:41,490 One settlement is rooted out but another one is created. 528 00:39:42,570 --> 00:39:43,330 As Letanovce. 529 00:39:43,770 --> 00:39:45,330 How it could be tolerated? 530 00:39:49,290 --> 00:39:52,090 But, what annoys me the most is, 531 00:39:52,460 --> 00:39:55,370 when someone says "Romani communities". 532 00:40:00,450 --> 00:40:04,290 Hungarians don't live together in one territory, 533 00:40:04,290 --> 00:40:07,470 they are also scattered among Slovaks and 534 00:40:07,570 --> 00:40:11,070 nobody call them Hungarian communities. 535 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,340 The same Ukrainians, 536 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,040 Rusyns. 537 00:40:18,260 --> 00:40:22,530 They don't live together as well. 538 00:40:22,730 --> 00:40:25,150 and nobody tell them they're a community. 539 00:40:26,130 --> 00:40:28,050 But the Roma are a community. 540 00:40:30,940 --> 00:40:32,200 I got so upset hearing it. 541 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,080 Last time I spoke with the one from the ministry. 542 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,330 I say: "How do you imagine that?" 543 00:40:37,780 --> 00:40:41,730 At the congress in London it was clearly said, 544 00:40:41,730 --> 00:40:45,440 that the Roma, in terms of Europe, are a nation. 545 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:51,840 And in terms of individual states, they're a national minority, 546 00:40:51,930 --> 00:40:54,590 the same as any other. 547 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,560 And we have a representative for communities. 548 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:02,600 It means 549 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,380 for you, for me, 550 00:41:05,570 --> 00:41:07,250 because I am a community. 551 00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:12,080 I am not a Roma, representative of national minority. 552 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:15,930 And everyone in the municipalities, 553 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,650 Romani functionaries as well and others still talks about 554 00:41:20,650 --> 00:41:21,960 Romani communities. 555 00:41:22,130 --> 00:41:24,260 I'm either a Roma, or not. 556 00:41:25,540 --> 00:41:27,520 Beekeepers are a community. 557 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,500 Woodcutters are a community. 558 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:31,730 Yes, they are. 559 00:41:34,490 --> 00:41:37,690 We talked in Romani language at home. 560 00:41:37,690 --> 00:41:40,860 So I could speak Romani already that time. 561 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,900 Then I improved it in Eastern Slovakia, 562 00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:46,120 there were certain differences 563 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,580 between the western Romani dialect and the eastern one. 564 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,540 So now I already speak in eastern dialect. 565 00:41:59,930 --> 00:42:02,600 It's true my wife isn't a Roma, 566 00:42:03,140 --> 00:42:06,300 so we have never talked Romani, 567 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,280 but I'm still able to speak it. 568 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,650 It's interesting, because I have nobody to speak Romani here. 569 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:14,300 No, really. 570 00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:16,550 Nor the old, nor the young. 571 00:42:16,810 --> 00:42:18,710 The young at all. 572 00:42:20,930 --> 00:42:24,050 I want my granddaughter to begin to learn Romani, 573 00:42:24,050 --> 00:42:28,990 But she now learns English and Russian language, 574 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,420 so I think I won't succeed. 575 00:42:32,420 --> 00:42:34,270 She is a bit dark-skinned 576 00:42:34,820 --> 00:42:36,470 so I'll leave her everything 577 00:42:37,140 --> 00:42:40,410 what is necessary. 578 00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:44,800 Because she, as a lawyer, 579 00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:48,780 must be interested in the Romani issue. 580 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,320 That's my wish.