I come from Myjava hillside fields.
We were eight children.
Dad and mom couldn't read nor write.
We lived near the woods, there we spent our childhood.
We bred two goats which fed us.
After finishing six grades of folk school,
director didn't want me to go to the town school,
but then I go there and I finished four grades.
Then I got trained in locksmithery in Dubnica nad Váhom.
It's here.
After apprenticeship I attended yearlong preparatory course.
And in 1950 I became a student of the university in Praha.
The case it was.
That time the recruitment of workers at the universities took place.
Medical science too.
Workers were needed at the medicine as well.
They even graduated.
And since I was the chairman of the Socialistic Youth Union at the factory,
they chose me and the whole committee.
Those technically specialized went to Bratislava
and we, specialized in humanities, went to Praha.
I didn't want to go
to university, because I wanted to stay here.
But once I was leaving, the chief of cadre shouted at me: - "Come back!"
So I did it.
It was in the 1950s, in 1949.
And he told me: " Do you think, we Non-Roma, will solve the Roma question?
"You will solve it yourself, that's why you'll go to university."
"And get out!"
So, I went to university.
It was terrible at first.
There were also grammar school students
they had their own study habits,
but we didn't.
I was lucky.
Some Novotný from České Budějovice lived with me.
He was the one
from the group working
on the agricultural farmhouses.
He was the leader of this group.
And we became great friends.
He'd been familiarizing me with the study gradually,
He is saying: "You can't read every single word, but the main idea is important."
Interestingly, I passed the final exams with better mark then him.
At that time the Slovaks were at this university.
They were graduates of the political-social university.
It was a predecessor.
There were one Slovak woman who perhaps had a patronage over me.
If it was possible, she used to check my notes and always wrote me:
I enjoy you are good.
So this way they kept me there.
Otherwise, I can"t complain.
One Roma, Daniel, studied with me the history.
He graduated from
the history.
Bartolomej Daniel from Kuklov.
And one more Roma was there.
Some Držka from Brezová.
But I don't know what happened with him.
I have no ethnic problems at the university,
because there were also Chinese, Indonesian or Bulgarian students.
I had a friend from Bulgaria.
Poles and Hungarians also studied there.
So there wasn't any ethnic problem.
But this kind of problem was later, when I came to Košice.
because people there weren't accustomed to have Roma as a supervisor.
And not even a judge.
Everyone was curious about me.
You know?
But later it was better,
and I have no ethnic conflicts.
Quite the reverse.
The whole Poprad greeted me.
The elderly still know me, when I come there.
I was a student of the College of political and economic sciences in Praha.
It was the collage controlled by Slanský, Secretary-General at that time.
But then criminal proceedings against him began
and it ended by his death, by hanging,
and our school was divided.
Part of philosophy and history went to the faculty,
to Charles University.
Economics went to Economic University.
and we went to Internal Administration.
We graduated as the lawyers of administrative law.
Then I got the job admittance to Košice.
As to the period of the proceeding with Slanský,
I hate to mention it, but the truth is, that the meetings took place at that time,
and members of Union, partyliners, state authorities demanded
Slanský and his group to be sentenced to death.
When they were discussing it, Gottwald talked about
11 years of imprisonment and other three will be released.
London, who wrote a book about this investigation period, was among them.
After finishing college in 1954
I got the job admittance to the Regional National Committee in Košice
as a referent for nationalities.
But, in practice, it was just for the Roma.
So I started to work.
First of all, I was aware that without statistics nothing can be done.
So I received an approval from the chairman of Regional National Committee Michal Chudík,
later he was the chairman of the National Council,
until 1989.
So I compiled such a family questionnaire.
I considered the family everyone who had children.
Thus, if they lived together but had no children, it wasn't a family for me.
It took almost a year, until filled-in questionnaires were sent to me.
Later on, I summarized it maybe for about a month.
It was in 1955.
At that time 43,000 Roma were in Košice region.
But it was a period of a big migration to Czech Republic.
So everyone from Čierna nad Tisou and Michalovce went to the Czech Republic.
It's hard to say whether this number was real, or not.
But in time when the record was made, it was 43,000.
This record must be archived somewhere in the Regional National Committee in Košice.
There were exact data,
as how far is the settlement from the village, how many children are there,
how many pensioners, invalids and everything was there.
Then I got an invitation from The Ministry of Justice,
as there was the recruitment to the justice and prosecution.
So I signed up for the justice
and I was appointed at the beginning of 1956
as a judge to Žilina.
But the Easterners already new me.
They said: "You cannot run from the east, you will stay here!"
I said, allright.
Czechs used to say before that Slovakia ends in Štrba
and the rest it's Balkan.
So I said: "Good, I want to go to Poprad."
They changed my letter of appointment and I became a judge in Poprad.
It was in 1956.
So we judged.
You know, I was the first Roma who was a judge on the east.
And people used to say among themselves:
"Who will be judging you, that Gypsy?"
Usually I went around and I said: "Yes, that Gypsy, it's me."
And people got used to it.
Then I enforced in the District National Committee
that in electing of judges from common people we had ten Romani judges.
Well, it was a big thing.
Really big thing.
It happens many times when we were three Roma judging
and convicts went out and said:
"If anyone had judged me, but the Gypsies sentenced me!"
But it came close because
there was no other possible action.
There were also people talking that: "Why couldn't he be a judge when he finished the collage?"
By the way, I was very strict as to the Romani fights,
because they weren't easy.
When it came to the fight somewhere, twenty people and three houses vanished.
Those who have been judged already two or three times,
went straight to the prison.
If I stayed in Poprad ten years more, there are no Gypsy fights now.
In these fights people even used axes on each other.
So it was.
When I worked in the court, one defense lawyer came there from Praha,
it was doctor Pospíšil.
He came to Stará Ľubovňa.
And once when we were sitting, I asked:
"Why did you come from Praha to Stará Ľubovňa:"
"Well, I worked at the General Prosecutor Office in Praha
and I refused to participate in the investigation of Slanský".
"So I promptly left with my wife to Stará Ľubovňa."
But his wife divorced him after one year,
because it was terrible in Stará Ľubovňa at that time.
We met each other after 1989 in Praha.
He already worked at the General Prosecutor Office.
I asked him whether they apologized, but he said no.
As to the performance I was assessed as the best one in Košice region.
Lot of people envied.
I got to the conflict with the president of county court,
because he said I favor Gypsies.
And this made me feel indignant.
So I said I'm leaving.
And Bratislavans try to soften me
to think it over.
But I was determined to leave,
so I left.
I work as a machine fitter for one year
in Tatravagonka in Poprad.
I earned 1,800 crowns as a judge and 3,500 crowns as a machine fitter.
So it was a good deal.
Then I had a friend here in Trenčín, who came from Tatry.
And once he called me:
"I have a job for you."
So I came to Trenčín as a lawyer on the Source.
People from Dubnica learned that I got trained,
that I am here, so the deputy came for me.
So then I worked at the juridical department in Dubnica,
what was really big department
because there was about 12,000 employees.
Practically, I came through the entire republic
as a lawyer.
Later
I went to the Gypsies-Roma Union.
Dedicated facility was set up there.
Firstly I worked there in manufacturing, later I became a director.
Afterwards I was dismissed,
I came to Trenčín
and again I worked as a lawyer at the investment department until my retirement.
As to the Gypsy-Roma Union,
it was the organization with inner power.
Every district had one worker from this Union,
which was in charge of Roma.
There was very good cooperation with the District National Committee.
It was in Sečovce, I remember,
in Trebišov, in Košice,
also in Prešov.
Then it was in Galanta,
and also
in Nitra.
Members of Union in these town often met.
There was one group in Bratislava, I remember,
where Facuna and Bihári belonged.
There was also one Roma from Levice, director of school.
Deceased Jano Cibuľa.
They all took part in the meetings.
I came to the first conference..
I know Facuna published bulletins about Roma.
Three.
I had them, but I don't know were they disappeared.
Facuna used to go to the authorities
as a poor man.
When union was registered already,
nobody wanted to give him the rooms.
When Russians came,
he went to commander of Bratislava, certain general,
which interceded for them to give him the rooms.
It was in...
When did the Russians come?
Yeas, in 1968.
At the beginning of 1969,
Yes, at the beginning of 1969 Facuna got the office rooms.
When Facuna was dismissed,
certain Daniel
became a director.
It was a man, which
didn't know write nor read well.
So then the Union
came off worst.
It was closed out,
because everything in reviving process was bad.
The Union was established in the reviving process,
so it was abolished together with Butiker.
It was in
1973.
Butiker started sometime in 1970.
Then came the liquidation.
The liquidation of Butiker.
About 70 million crowns left there
and it went to the National front.
Butiker and The Union were slandered,
that everything was
because of misappropriation.
But no one Roma in Slovakia
was condemned of misappropriation of their own enterprise.
Though Non-Roma were condemned.
But, unfortunately, this way it was spoke to public.
The last Chief of Butiker was...
the farmer from Michalovce.
Bánoš.
Yes, I think it was Ing. Bánoš.
In the meantime,
sure, in 70s the first Gypsy-Roma Union
was formed.
Well, I became a substitute of Central Committee,
but after half a year I became a member of chairmanship.
Then...
Then I was dismissed as a director
and they also dismissed Facuna.
Facuna was a weird figure.
Nobody knew about him from where he came.
We only knew he was a surveyor.
And last time he did
a building inspector for Building Constructions Company in Bratislava.
I've never known
who he is.
I knew he came from Martin,
because the only Facunas' in Slovakia were the Gypsies in Martin.
Even though I tried to inform, nobody said anything.
Until recently, about three years ago,
an article with the title "Who was Facuna?"
appeared in Pravda news.
So I learned,
he was a member of English mission
set out to help the Slovak National Uprising.
They were eight members,
but only Facuna remained.
Later, sometime in 80s, or in the half of 90s,
a book about this English mission was published in America.
In the book it is mentioned that only Facuna is alive.
After his death Ministry of National Defence
stated Facuna
honour in memoriam.
His son received it for him.
I've never understood why they chased Facuna.
In this period of time everything in the Second front
was a class enemy.
And Facuna was also one of them,
that's why he was dismissed.
I remember very well
the establishment of the so-called Slovak state.
At that time, a director of the school on our solitary hillsides was some Kukliš.
He was a guardsman.
He organized...
he organized the radio listening,
where Ďurčanský declared the Slovak state.
Well, but villagers didn't know
what, actually, this Slovak state was, we didn't feel it
at all.
I also remember, when we
attended folk school,
Hlinka Youth was founded that time.
And we had one
such a fiery schoolmate who said:
"We don't want Hlinka Youth, but Štefánik Youth."
You know, evangelical region.
Well, but it didn't happen.
So it was.
How did we live in the Slovak state?
Opinions are different.
But there wasn't enough food.
There existed vouchers for
unemployment support.
It meant that people, dependent on those vouchers, had to come to town,
everyone got the broom to sweep the streets.
Town security men then
checked whether it was done.
After this work people got tickets worth of ten crowns with a stamp.
And they couldn't go shopping wherever,
but they had to go exactly to the store designed for it.
Unfortunately, we ate even bean bread.
Some millers used to give also beans to the grain.
And when a bread was baked, its lower part was so dense.
I also remember the rise of the uprising.
We lived near the woods.
The commander of partisans in Myjavsko, Miloš Uher and others
used to go to us.
I also remember the military unit Vlasovci.
Yeah.
Among them were aslo Kromovci, who used to go to us too.
But it was fun with them.
They cannot speak Romani, nor Russian,
because they came from Kyrgyzstan usually.
But we had a fun with them.
They danced with us.
Father played them on the violin.
I remember when first Russian soldiers came to our village.
That time we were just doing a fence,
when Russian soldiers began to laugh:
"See, Gypsies are working."
And I've never known why they said that.
Only then, when I met with Ukrainians and they told us:
"In our country, Gypsies don't work, they cheat."
They simply cheat.
So then I realized what those Russian soldiers meant
saying with laugh: "Gypsies are working."
The concentration camp for Roma was here in Dubnica.
They worked on the construction of hydroelectric power plant
but in disastrous conditions.
There were Roma from the east but also local ones.
And then
at the beginning of 1944 was necessary to add some other Roma.
But the front was already close.
Our father was also waiting every day that they'll come for him
to go work to Dubnica,
but it didn't happen.
The book came out,
the book about this concentration camp.
It was written by professor Nádejný from Púchov.
The book came out all over Slovakia.
It must be somewhere, but I didn't get it.
Yeah.
So immediately after war,
when Russians came, the concentration camp was fired and it burnt down.
It is written in this book,
about the exact place, where it was located.
I know as I was there,
because I mapped the people still living at that time,
those from the camp.
That all is in this book.
But one thing
can't be forgotten.
There appeared a typhoid fever in that camp.
And Germans were afraid.
Because it was a factory producing aircraft and weapon engines for Germans.
So they were afraid the civilians could get that disease too.
Thus, Germans put the people in the car and took them to the big valley in Dubnica.
They digged up the hole and there they shot them all.
There's a memorial.
It was identified
who exactly was there.
One man of our family, some Herald from Stará Turá, remained there.
Yes, it was in 1946, or in 1947.
The main speaker was
Marián the Great,
who was a professor at the Faculty of Law in Bratislava.
He lectured on criminal law.
This person is alive and he had a leading talk.
In Žilina it was the conference about Roma.
It was called specially, I don't know who, actually, did it,
whether former Ministry, or political party.
But at that time, the party wasn't a leading power.
Thus,someone from state administration must did it.
I know who was there from Považie,
but they're already deceased.
Everyone is afraid to talk about it.
First report I gave to the council of the District Natiaonal Committee,
was the situation in education
and construction of family houses.
It wast the most important.
That time,
once a year the question of
Romani children at school was solved
by the chairmanship of the Distric National Committe,
because the head of the union was responsible for the solving of the Romani issue in the district.
The report about it had to be very detailed.
How many children finished the fourth grade.
How many it was in the fifth,
sixth, seventh and eighth grade.
Usually it was the fourth and fifth grade.
Then the conclusions were made.
There had to be given reports
with number of Romani pupils which went to the training institution
and which went to the grammar school.
It had to be accurate.
Teachers had a bonus,
I think it was 600 crowns per month.
So it was getting on well.
Even the most Romani boys and girls
finished the school at that time.
Sad to say, at present it's too little.
More than 200 Roma studied at universities.
Today I can count them on the fingers of one hand.
Because it was monitored.
It wasn't presented outwardly,
but it had to be monitored.
Then I wrote to the report,
that the settlements were the part of the district.
It means the municipality was obliged to care about Roma as well.
And I put in the resolution, that
the construction of new family houses
must be done just within the town residential area.
Since the settlement wasn't in the town residential area,
the houses had to be built in the village.
Even it happened so.
Poprad district has a number of villages,
though it's extended...
You know.
Roma lived together but they are part of the village.
Nobody deals with it for now.
as nobody knows a lot about it.
Also I would say,
at that time many villages exploited when Roma worked.
The houses were built.
In Jarovnice, there is the street constructed when Communism ruled.
One side and another too.
Everyone got 800 squere metres of the land
and there the house was built.
The mayors used to visit employers and say:
"This citizen will build the house, try to help them."
And they helped.
Since then no new houses have been built.
So
we can't compare it.
That time when Roma came to the District Committee
and complained that their colleagues gave him a hard time,
it was solved immediately.
A supervisor or a director were warned:
"Either you will put things right,
or we can say goodbye."
Today no one can say it like this.
I didn't participate in the Velvet Revolution,
because we were outside Bratislava.
Demonstrating people jingled by the keys during the revolution,
but they probably didn't know, what was waiting for them.
If they knew that
there will be a change of social ownership to private ownership
and unemployment, they wouldn't do that for sure.
Later, as I've already mentioned,
the union was established thanks to Facuna
and several another people in Bratislava.
I participated in it,
but over the ten last years,
but it's no longer a custom to call us elders
to discuss
what was wrong at that time and what is now.
In eighties
I already worked in Trenčín,
because my wife worked there
at the extended workplace
in the DC of the Communists.
So i got to the Merina as an investment lawyer.
Then I left and went to Brno to Ščuk.
as he opened the operation there,
they needed machines and people, so they took me there.
I worked at Ščuk in Praha
for twelve years.
I also participated in the Romani issue in Czech Republic.
I know it all there.
That time it was within the RCI
Though I wasn't member of the Romani Citizens' Initiative, they called me everywhere.
I remember something from the politics,
but what has happened,
is the shame of Slovakia.
Banská Bystrica is also a big shame.
Nobody dealt with it.
Nobody.
The situation is as it is,
And I don't see the position of Roma would improve.
When Roma don't help themselves,
there is no one who would help them.
Even if there are some promises, they are empty words.
Unfortunately.
Because
I can't understand how 6-member family from the settlement
in Eastern Slovakia with an income of 150 €
can exist on it.
Which statesman would be able to live from it?
Roma suffered for everything
first.
So...
As I said...
If they don't help themselves, there is no way to help them.
Unfortunately, there is the European Union,
which keeps wing over the Roma.
Otherwise the municipalities
would have preferred to get rid of the Roma.
One settlement is rooted out but another one is created.
As Letanovce.
How it could be tolerated?
But, what annoys me the most is,
when someone says "Romani communities".
Hungarians don't live together in one territory,
they are also scattered among Slovaks and
nobody call them Hungarian communities.
The same Ukrainians,
Rusyns.
They don't live together as well.
and nobody tell them they're a community.
But the Roma are a community.
I got so upset hearing it.
Last time I spoke with the one from the ministry.
I say: "How do you imagine that?"
At the congress in London it was clearly said,
that the Roma, in terms of Europe, are a nation.
And in terms of individual states, they're a national minority,
the same as any other.
And we have a representative for communities.
It means
for you, for me,
because I am a community.
I am not a Roma, representative of national minority.
And everyone in the municipalities,
Romani functionaries as well and others still talks about
Romani communities.
I'm either a Roma, or not.
Beekeepers are a community.
Woodcutters are a community.
Yes, they are.
We talked in Romani language at home.
So I could speak Romani already that time.
Then I improved it in Eastern Slovakia,
there were certain differences
between the western Romani dialect and the eastern one.
So now I already speak in eastern dialect.
It's true my wife isn't a Roma,
so we have never talked Romani,
but I'm still able to speak it.
It's interesting, because I have nobody to speak Romani here.
No, really.
Nor the old, nor the young.
The young at all.
I want my granddaughter to begin to learn Romani,
But she now learns English and Russian language,
so I think I won't succeed.
She is a bit dark-skinned
so I'll leave her everything
what is necessary.
Because she, as a lawyer,
must be interested in the Romani issue.
That's my wish.