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The State Scientific Library in Prešov

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Tomáš Hrustič 
Black and white worlds

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My name is Tomáš Hrustič.

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I work in the Institute of Ethnology of the Slovak Academy of Sciences.

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I am interested in Romanies.

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For one year I lived

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with Romanies in eastern Slovakia.

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I learned their language,

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because I wanted to know them better.

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So, basically, when I went to live with their community,

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it was because of my dissertation thesis.

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I didn't want my research to be only about reading some books.

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There weren't even that many, in 2004.

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So I knew that if I wanted to know how Romanies live, I had to go and live with them.

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I had to become a part of their community.

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If that is even possible.

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I was very lucky that they accepted me.

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Slowly, we got used to each other.

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As for me, I got used to living in a place

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with few amenities.

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My friends, at the same time, got used to me.

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Gradually, I became a member of their families, their homes.

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This way I learned about the structure of a Roma family.

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How a settlement works, what kind of rules it has.

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I have to say that it was a very profound experience

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that affected my whole life.

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I gained a huge amount of friends and friendships

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that last until this day.

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You mentioned that you have learned how a settlement works.

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Does that mean that a settlement, traditional settlement,

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is in a way a separate unit

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with its own social and economic functions and so on?

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Maybe even functions that could be developed?

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Yes.

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Maybe, if I simplify a little,

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the Roma settlements in Slovakia

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are a different world compared to

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middle class in Slovakia.

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Non-Romani, but also Romani middle class.

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The strategies used by people in settlements

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to survive

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are different from ours,

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different from those less destitute.

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Their strategies are very similar to those

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of people in other parts of the world

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living in similar conditions

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as the Romanies in some of the settlements.

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I need to emphasize that not all Romanies in Slovakia live in settlements.

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It's only a part of the population.

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These people have to work few times more than an average person

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to survive with dignity.

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The title Black and white worlds kind of signifies

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that the world of Roma people and the world of non-Roma people are a little different

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and at the same time the Romanies and non-Romanies don't know each other as much as would be proper,

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when we live in the same country.

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The title Black and white worlds also brings to mind

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that the non-Romanies often have very one-sided view of the Romanies.

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Frequently, it's about prejudice and stereotyping

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not based on facts

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that leads us to thinking in black and white.

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That is why we have chosen this title.

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The book was created as a result of a project

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that the Institute of Ethnology started in 2010.

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The name of the project was "Roma in majority society in Slovakia".

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It was a Scientific Grant Agency (VEGA) project

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supported by Slovak Academy of Sciences.

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Its purpose was to clarify

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how the Roma people in Slovakia live.

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Mostly to educate the majority of the population.

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Black and white worlds 
and 
politics

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Whole project, as well as this book,

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were focused on looking at Romanies through long-term studies and research

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conducted by researchers from different areas.

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But this research was done

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directly in Roma communities.

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It's not just a collections of texts about Romanies,

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full of statistical data or quantitative research.

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It's unique in

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bringing a detailed, in-depth study of life in specific communities

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mentioned in the book,

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which was done through the long-term research and close contact

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with the world presented within its chapters.

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Of course, from this point of view the book has an ambition

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to clarify some problematic topics and bring certain conclusions,

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maybe even offer solutions,

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to people formulating the policies.

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An advantage of this method is

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that through the long-term research in social sciences

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it's possible to decipher some of the rules

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governing certain communities.

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Sometimes, even, to let them be known to the law-makers or people who make decisions

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concerning those communities.

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Because it's extremely important, especially in social sciences,

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as politicians often believe that they can make laws based

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only on living in the society and their understanding of it.

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No politician would try to create a new law about nuclear energetics

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without consulting specialists

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that understand nuclear energetics.

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On the other side, when it comes to laws concerning,

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for example, social services,

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everybody believes themself an expert.

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Still, it should be emphasized that even the society and social sciences

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cast light on and decode the rules that make the community work.

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For the policies to be useful

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and bring more good than harm,

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knowledge of how the society works is necessary,

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which is a very important message of this book.

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More sections of the book than one

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bring better understanding of how the society,

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in this case mainly Roma society in settlements, works.

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Without this knowledge

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all proposed policies fail

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and their failure is proven, basically, by the current situation.

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On the other side, I have to mention that many suggested measures

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are successful on the local level.

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The most important thing, however,

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is for this or whichever government

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to decide to go for the win.

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To take all the strategies, all the suggested steps,

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which are often tried and true,

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and to take care that they are really implemented.

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I. Black and white policies
Discourses, outlooks and options for participation

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II. Where and how we live
Socioeconomic picture of two different worlds

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II. How we speak about ourselves
Linguistic and social images of Roma as instruments for separating the worlds of "black" and "white"

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The book has three parts.

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The first one is called "Black and white policies".

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It consists mainly of various discourses about Romanies,

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which are dominant for decision-making

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and for the process of inclusion of Romanies into society.

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It addresses policies, outlooks of the majority on Roma people,

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as well as the potential for participation of Romanies on this world.

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There are four chapters about anti-Roma beliefs

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as a barrier against an integrated society.

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There is also a chapter by Andrej Findor and a team of other authors

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about something like moral basis of the conflict about social justice in Slovakia,

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which stems, essentially, from psychology.

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One chapter is about perception of Romanies in society as oriental and exotic.

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Not only in Slovakia, but in Europe as well.

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And as I mentioned before, there is also the chapter

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about political participation of Romanies.

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The second part of the book is called "Where and how we live".

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It creates a picture

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of socioeconomic rules in Roma settlements.

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It describes subjects like health and Roma people's attitude to health-care.

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One chapter is about Roma migration and their return to Slovakia.

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How a socioeconomic structure of settlements changes.

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There is a chapter about usurers,

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about infrastructure in settlements, about access to fresh water.

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There is some interpretation of the space of Romanies

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that live with the majority and those

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living in segregated settlements.

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Another very interesting chapter, or more like a part of the book,

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is called "How we speak about ourselves".

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It contains contributions of linguists

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who analyze the language and its usage,

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and particularly how using Roma or Slovak language in this context

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impacts social aspects of their life.

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Some of the chapters specialize on explaining

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how various stereotypes and prejudices about Romanies work.

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For example, very interesting are texts by my colleague from the Institute of Ethnology, Arne Mann,

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who analyses ethnic stereotypes as a source of jokes about Romanies

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and how it reflects on the overall atmosphere

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of the present times

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and on an increase of animosity and intolerance.

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So, this is, roughly, a structure

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of how the book is designed.

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Personally, I am very pleased that we managed

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to collect a remarkable team of authors.

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People from different fields of science,

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but all connected by their long-term

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research of Roma people in Slovakia.

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We have foreign authors too, from Czech Republic and Bulgaria.

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For me, this is the most interesting merit of this book,

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that it contains and concentrates the outlooks of people who,

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for a long time, researched Slovak Romanies.

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"What kind of accord we reach is only up to us."
Summary of Roma political participation in Slovakia (1990 - 2014)

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This chapter is a reflection of my longstanding interest

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in participation of Romanies in politics.

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I bring an overview

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of how the Romanies tried to affect politics,

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since Gentle revolution until today.

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At the same time I look at those aspirations through the influence of certain theories,

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about how participation of minorities on politics works,

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or how their involvement in decision-making works.

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The quotation "What kind of accord we reach is only up to us"

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is taken out of a bigger speech.

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It's from the speech delivered by the Roma spokesmen in 1989,

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during the months of November and December,

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when Roma representatives spoke out

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to the massive crowd of demonstrators on Letná plain in Prague.

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That's the point in time in which this chapter starts.

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It was a very strong moment,

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as in those euphoric days after the revolution

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even Romanies had their part in the changes.

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The leaders of Civic Forum and Public Against Violence asked them

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to join in the transformation that was happening.

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In this speech it was mentioned

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that Romanies wanted to be a part of the changes in the society that were to come

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and the important thing was what kind of agreement they will come to with each other.

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At the same time, the second part of the quotation says that we need

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to talk to people who are ready to listen.

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And that is also the foundation of my chapter.

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That on one side, the inability to build

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a strong Roma political party until this very day

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is a result of the unwillingness to listen

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on the side of the potential partners,

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the non-Roma political parties that are in lead.

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On the other side, there is also an element

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of us being able to come to an agreement.

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During the short time,

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historically, of the last twenty years,

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the Romanies were unable to mobilize

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and agree on their representatives.

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In a way, it's natural,

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as after the changes that year 1989 brought,

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Romanies weren't prepared

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to set the direction and influence important changes in society.

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Because, unfortunately, the previous era

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didn't allow them in the leading positions.

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During socialism they were mostly oppressed,

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without education and working only as manual labour.

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Through this chapter I want to emphasize

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that what is happening is a natural evolution.

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Some time is needed

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for an exchange of generations

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and for Romanies

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to start to feel a need for mobilization,

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and for Roma leaders and elites

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that are starting to emerge,

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to be able to communicate important subjects down

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to the Romanies in settlements.

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To try to induce them to action and to explain

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how important it is for Romanies to have a representation

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that would defend their rights.

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Of course, this representation will never be united,

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because Romanies are not a uniform group.

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They are very diverse,

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which is an asset and a good thing.

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It is natural that some of them will incline towards left-wing political parties

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and some of them towards right-wing ones.

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Some of them will want to defend their ethnic rights,

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maybe through Roma political parties.

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It's a natural display

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of their heterogeneity.

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However, it doesn't mean they can't have first-rate politicians, first-rate representatives

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who will defend their interests.

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Either through an ethnic party,

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which will evolve and gain influence,

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or through their representatives in major political parties.

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Black and white worlds
potential of the book

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The book brings an opportunity

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for the attentive reader to find answers to the question

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of correctness of populist rhetoric

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often heard about this subject.

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Because most of the pages in this book

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specifically contradict this populist,

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oversimplified view of Roma people in Slovakia.

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Transcription: Zdeněk Kovář
Correction: Marcel Mravec
Translation: Erika Godlová