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Michal Mižigár

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My name is Michal Mižigár.

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Roma people call me Mizhus.

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I come from Czech Republic.

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My family came to Czech Republic

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after the war, from the tiny
villages around Stará Ľubovňa.

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We, specifically, came from Hromoš,

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my grandmothers and grandfathers came
from the several villages of Spiš region.

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Such as Plavnica, Hromoš,

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relatives from my granddad´s side
were from the area around Levoča.

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Journey to education

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I went to the high school
and it was a business academy,

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and then I went to Prague to
the Faculty of Arts of Charles University,

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where I studied Roma studies
and ended up with a bachelor's degree.

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Then I went to Budapest to CEU,

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the Central European University,

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in Romani I would translate it
as a Central European University,

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it was in Budapest, and now it is in Vienna, Austria.

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The first year I was in
a program that prepares you

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to study in an English

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master's program at any
American or English university.

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I studied there, and I was preparing

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to take the TOEFL test, and I was accepted

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into a master's program in a comparative history,

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at the same university.

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Like in every American university,

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the study system is different.

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Here in our country, the student is given
a list of literature to read,

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or a paper to write, or to master a test.

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The way it works in an American university is

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that you have to submit a project, an idea

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that you're doing research on.

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I found such an idea quite difficult to achieve,

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as I never studied history,

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because I was interested in Romani studies.

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And I got the idea, that I wanted to try to compare

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the Roma musicians in the nineties

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in Prešov and in Košice

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and in Budapest, because I knew that all the Roma

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in the Habsburg monarchy 
made their living as a musicians,

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but we all know how much they
were respected by the Hungarians.

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I had all kinds of ideas about how, why,

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and I wanted to create such a concept

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within the social history.

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I set the premise that those Hungarians
(Hungarian Roma)

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they also spoke Hungarian,

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and they lived close to the Hungarian lords.

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Our Roma lived here in Slovakia,
in the eastern Slovakia,

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where there were not many lords, only a few counts,

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but there were many landowners.

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And if somebody was a respected musician,
he used to go and play.

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To cafés, to wine bars, to Košice or to Prešov,

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but there was nothing more to achieve.

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The Roma who were closer to Pest,

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to the nobility, to the gentry,

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they were more respected, they were
better motivated, they were better paid.

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So I had a kind of an idea that I wanted to put

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in the context with the history of the monarchy.

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Problems of historical research

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It's very difficult, because if someone wants

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to write about history,

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there are not enough books, there are no sources.

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It is not a problem to document

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the history of Czechs or Slovaks
or other nations,

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but it is still a problem for Roma.

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Because it can really be seen,

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for example, in Roma literature,
that not many years have passed

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since the Roma began to write and publish.

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But it's still very interesting

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that somehow I have to

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take my work further forward,

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it's just harder now that I have a job
and at the same time I'm finishing my work.

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Study and work

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Now I'm in England

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for the second year,

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I was there for half a year,

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then I came to the Czech Republic or England,
where I'm finishing school.

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Now I still need to finish my diploma thesis,

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because I studied
comparative history in Budapest.

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At the same time, I work at Compass Charity,

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where we have a program in which we deal

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with Roma children

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who came to schools from
the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Romania,

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and we ensure that there is better

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collaboration, better cooperation

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between Roma families and between

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the state system, which includes the schools.

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In England we are currently
involved in a project called

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ROGA - Roma of Great Abilities,

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which is run by Roma with a great abilities.

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This project was founded by Petr Torák

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and last year he was awarded,
how to say, a kind of Oscar,

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which is otherwise awarded
to teachers from Great Britain.

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Our work is based on going into the schools

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and engaging with the children we talk to.

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Children are very surprised when someone
comes and talks to them in their own language

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and we try

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to talk to them and find out
if they have any problems at school

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and find a way to improve the whole education.

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Or there are other cases when
children do not have problems,

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they are very obedient, they are smart,

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but they do not have anyone to advise them,
because no one in the family

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has finished the higher education.

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And we pay attention to them and advise them

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to read more books, to try to spread

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the language more, how to
get involved in club activities,

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to be active, and then I think it's good.

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But it is also true that

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there are many problems,
and that means that those Roma

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who come from the Czech Republic,
Slovakia or Romania,

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while bringing the way of life
from those countries,

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including all the problems, to England,

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they have to learn and see, that it is
a different education system,

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that they have more job opportunities,

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that their children can thus
create the conditions

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for a much better life compared to what they
would have in the countries they came from.

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It's more about trying to show them

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what they can achieve, they just don't know it.

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And especially for me, it's all very interesting,

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because I have the opportunity to see
where the Roma come from

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and how their children grow up.

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It feels very good to see all this.

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In addition, I also do my own activities,

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which means I teach the Romani language online

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and I also teach online in the Czech Republic.

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Experience from working in Great Britain
and Czech Republic

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We came to a town in Wales.

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They called us to one school
where they were having problems.

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And one week before, I was in a school in
the Czech Republic and the principal said:

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- They are like this and that,

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you can't do this with them, you can't do
that with them, you can't do anything with them.

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A week later we were in England, in Wales,

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and the director there says:

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- We have such and such a problem,

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what more do we need to do to understand them?

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What do we need to do more intensively
so that this problem is no longer here?

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And that alone shows

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how they look at you.

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And that they treat you like a human being.

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And when I think about how far

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the successful people who are now in England,

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who came from the Czech Republic,

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have made it, they are people who
should have been in this country,

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in this state, in special schools.

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It was like a miracle had happened.

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Even today, there are many young Roma

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in the Czech Republic and Slovakia who had
a guardian angel with them.

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Who had someone sent by God

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to get them into some better schools.
That was also my case.

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But in England it is so that

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the teachers there are used to teach

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the children of several
nationalities in one class.

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This is not like here, where
the teacher has Roma students

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and there is already some kind of
a obstacle, big complications with them.

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Inclusive education must be
introduced into this process.

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In England, they consider it something
similar to woods and water.

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I mean, for something completely natural.

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They don't see it as something
they have to do grudgingly.

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Our domestic experience shows

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that there is simply no desire to be
in contact with Roma here.

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The refusal to include the Roma

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is primarily the result of a prejudice.

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Those kids aren't even getting an education here.

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Considering what I saw in England, I can say...

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Everything possible was being
done here to prevent Roma

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from coming into contact with non-Roma children.

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And that is the biggest problem.

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In England, it happens

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that those who want to study at universities,

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but there are also those who know that
they don't even need a university education,

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because they get the job they want.

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It is only necessary to be polite, behave well,

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dress nicely,

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speak the language and prove
yourself in the job. That is all.

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And in the Czech Republic, in Slovakia
and in the whole of Europe,

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it's hard for me to talk about it,
there´s such a myth.

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I lived by that myth too.

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I will graduate from university,

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I will have a good life. It is not truth.

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I will graduate from university

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and I will only have more of a social capital.

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I will have non-Roma friends who will help me

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get maybe a sublet, some housing somewhere.

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But I will have the same problems as the Roma

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who come from the Roma communities.
Or from the urban ghettos.

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Or Roma who are integrated.

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Well, the Roma in the countryside,
they are very poor.

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But if I remain a Roma and have a diploma,

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it does not mean that everything is fine.

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On the contrary, it opens

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the way for a person to an even greater struggle.

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For the right that your children
grow up in a good environment,

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for the right that your
children go to a good school,

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for the right that you already know
what and how it should be

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and you perceive that this is not
the case in relation to you.

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You should get that, just based on the Declaration

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of Human Rights.

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So I find it hard to look at this

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from some kind of perspective,

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that we still have to, that we still have to prove

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who we are, that we are good,
that we are not like that...

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After all, that's not what life is about.

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Now I see that we already have
generations of bachelors and masters

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who are moving forward and
asking what they lived in,

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what they put that effort and determination
into. Is it worth it or not?

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Yes, it is worth it.

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And it's sad when I have to say

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that those Roma who don't have
an education mock them,

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saying: "listen, you're going to school for nothing,
they won't take you to work anyway."

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I mean, when they see that
some Roma have a hard life and so on,

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they identify with it more,

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thinking that it is not worth studying...

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In many schools, there are

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unique principals or unique teachers

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who want to help Roma children,
but they are on their own.

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They do not have the power
to influence the entire teaching staff.

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And it's a great shame.

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But to return to the question, those schools
are different, they are different.

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There is one in Trmice, for example,

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where there is a very good principal.

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That was more or less a non-Roma school,
from which the non-Roma took their children

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and preferred to place them in Ústí nad Labem.

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And now both Roma children and non-Roma
children go there, all together

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and there is no problem,
now it is a very good school.

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And then we also have the schools
that are exclusively Roma.

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And I think that can be a problem,
because now we have generations

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of both Roma and non-Roma

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who do not have such mutual contact.

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They don't grow up together,
they don't know each other.

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This is something that I am very afraid of,

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because these Roma will fall into
the greater poverty,

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and as for those young non-Roma,

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they will have even stronger prejudices
and stereotypes about Roma.

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It is not easy to return

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When a person goes abroad

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the way I went to England, I had no one in that city.

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I really went all by myself, the whole family
stayed in the Czech Republic.

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And I kind of wanted to prove to myself

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what it's like to live somewhere else.

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And the same thing happened when I was
at CEU (Central European University),

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it was difficult to return to
the Czech Republic even then.

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It's that you're in that
multicultural environment,

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and when you go back, it's not so easy to come back.

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So when I found a good job there

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I decided to go there and I left a good job,

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I left a good job in the Czech Republic.

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Because, I had the motivation to go out.

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00:17:22,180 --> 00:17:25,180
That this way I can learn the language
even better and so on.

249
00:17:25,490 --> 00:17:29,520
Anti-discrimination in practice

250
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:30,690
I would put it this way.

251
00:17:30,690 --> 00:17:33,000
There is also racism in England,

252
00:17:33,890 --> 00:17:36,620
but the law applies.

253
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,520
The law applies.

254
00:17:39,250 --> 00:17:42,760
The thing is, when something happens to you,

255
00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:47,170
you have someone to turn to.

256
00:17:47,780 --> 00:17:51,850
You simply demand the justice.

257
00:17:53,210 --> 00:17:58,890
Not here. In the Czech Republic last year
a Roma man was murdered

258
00:18:00,260 --> 00:18:03,820
and nobody was arrested for it,
as if nothing had happened.

259
00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:09,250
They just said he was a drug addict,

260
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:12,290
that he was very addicted and that was it.

261
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,660
And in England it would be a big case.

262
00:18:17,010 --> 00:18:19,140
The law does not seem to be helpful to the Roma.

263
00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:23,690
I think the law is there to enforce the justice

264
00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:29,370
in case something bad happens to us.

265
00:18:29,860 --> 00:18:32,850
Because the law doesn't apply as it should.

266
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:39,490
And even though there is a racism in England,
the law does apply.

267
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,610
And that's why those Roma don't want to go back.

268
00:18:43,010 --> 00:18:47,320
Because they realize that only there
they do really feel human.

269
00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:51,720
We are here as the second-rate ones,

270
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:56,540
and that is why they do not want to feel
like the second-rate ones anymore.

271
00:18:57,050 --> 00:18:58,760
They have the choice

272
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,540
to live where they feel respected
as a human beings.

273
00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:08,720
Life mission

274
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,120
I don't even know if I will really stay in England,

275
00:19:13,340 --> 00:19:17,250
because I like it there, but at the same time

276
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,840
it will never be my home.

277
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:21,770
My home is here.

278
00:19:21,890 --> 00:19:23,820
But one thing I know for sure is that

279
00:19:24,170 --> 00:19:28,210
no matter what kind of work I do,

280
00:19:28,210 --> 00:19:34,580
I would still like to deal with Romani history
and with the Romani language,

281
00:19:35,060 --> 00:19:39,680
because that is exactly what I consider to be

282
00:19:39,820 --> 00:19:45,420
my life's task, the mission that I have to fulfill.

283
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,010
And now I'm teaching it

284
00:19:48,010 --> 00:19:52,250
or making it more accessible to people,
whether Roma or non-Roma,

285
00:19:52,250 --> 00:19:55,840
and that's how I perceive it, that I'm doing
something I should be doing.

286
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,840
I would like to do this all the time,

287
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,920
to remain such a Roma patriot as I was

288
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,540
when I was in the Czech Republic.

289
00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:12,960
Family pride

290
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,400
Of course they are proud.

291
00:20:15,730 --> 00:20:20,460
They are proud. I remember when
my grandmother was still alive,

292
00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:23,460
one grandmother is no longer alive,

293
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,560
she was very proud.

294
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,500
In front of people, even when she was in
the hospital, she praised me there too.

295
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,500
And I kept saying to her: "Grandma, you didn't
have to say that", and she said,

296
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:36,500
if other Roma people had somebody in college,

297
00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:40,140
you'd see how proud they would be,
even more than I was.

298
00:20:40,140 --> 00:20:43,690
And you're such a devil that you won't let me do that.

299
00:20:43,690 --> 00:20:45,850
So I tell her, well, if it makes you happy,

300
00:20:46,450 --> 00:20:52,290
do whatever you want.

301
00:20:52,460 --> 00:20:56,610
We even make fun of it.

302
00:20:56,890 --> 00:21:00,670
But everyone also knows
that it's not just for free.

303
00:21:00,930 --> 00:21:02,540
I can thank my mother

304
00:21:03,020 --> 00:21:05,490
and my father very much,

305
00:21:05,630 --> 00:21:10,880
because they were not so rich
to pay me everything.

306
00:21:11,180 --> 00:21:13,090
But they gave me something

307
00:21:14,350 --> 00:21:18,580
that not every Romani mother,
not every Romani father would do.

308
00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:20,280
They let me go.

309
00:21:20,540 --> 00:21:21,870
They didn't tell me

310
00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:25,650
now you're going to work, now you're going
to do this, now you're going to do that.

311
00:21:25,980 --> 00:21:32,180
That's why I know that my mother
and my father did something

312
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,130
that makes me proud of them, because only now

313
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,370
I realized that they didn't even know
what I actually went to study,

314
00:21:40,420 --> 00:21:42,620
what I went to do.

315
00:21:42,940 --> 00:21:47,870
In several contexts, they didn't even know
where I was actually studying.

316
00:21:47,870 --> 00:21:52,040
Because if I said the Faculty of Arts
of the Charles University

317
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,500
or the Central European University,

318
00:21:55,500 --> 00:22:01,820
it was something they really
had to learn to pronounce.

319
00:22:02,190 --> 00:22:06,010
And I would add that the Roma
didn't even know what it was.

320
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,760
Now I basically realize that

321
00:22:10,820 --> 00:22:16,580
I admire them, that it wasn't even necessary
to have money or anything like that.

322
00:22:16,580 --> 00:22:20,330
But you really have to let go,

323
00:22:20,690 --> 00:22:22,600
let that son, that daughter live.

324
00:22:22,750 --> 00:22:26,000
And for all that, I will thank

325
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,080
my parents, my mother, my father
for the rest of my life,

326
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,680
because it's about

327
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:39,060
what I could have made of myself and for myself,

328
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,290
what I could have gotten.

329
00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:47,950
It is also about the fact that if a person wants,

330
00:22:48,510 --> 00:22:52,350
he will somehow get the funds,
the scholarship from somewhere.

331
00:22:52,820 --> 00:22:56,420
Or when it comes to work, I wasn't such a student

332
00:22:56,530 --> 00:22:59,480
that I had everything paid for, arranged.

333
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,200
I also had to work alongside,

334
00:23:02,810 --> 00:23:08,980
but the fact that your family lets you go
your own way, that's something even more.

335
00:23:09,170 --> 00:23:13,210
We need a facts and a figures.

336
00:23:13,210 --> 00:23:15,560
When I was an activist in Prague,

337
00:23:16,010 --> 00:23:20,600
I already knew that we need an information,

338
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,950
how to report about ourselves,
how to write about ourselves.

339
00:23:24,350 --> 00:23:26,360
That's why I went to study a history,

340
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:31,840
because I knew I needed a general knowledge.

341
00:23:32,860 --> 00:23:38,860
I would call it a humanities with an overlap into
the history and a little bit into the philosophy,

342
00:23:39,330 --> 00:23:44,050
because I needed to grab some context,

343
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,860
because we have the information,
the data about the Roma.

344
00:23:46,860 --> 00:23:53,380
What we really need, and it´is very necessary for
the non-Roma, is to place this in their own context.

345
00:23:53,380 --> 00:23:55,640
Into the context of their history.

346
00:23:55,940 --> 00:23:57,880
And that's why I went to study the history.

347
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,190
Romani language

348
00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:04,210
Now we speak Romani.

349
00:24:04,990 --> 00:24:10,450
If someone sees and hears this, they will
understand that I speak Romani well.

350
00:24:11,070 --> 00:24:13,330
And whether you are a girl or a boy

351
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,940
or a woman or a man, mother,
father, grandmother, grandfather,

352
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,700
keep your tongue as long as possible.

353
00:24:22,010 --> 00:24:26,130
Just the fact that you understand this language

354
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:31,780
is a great miracle, it's a big thing.
Our Roma were killed

355
00:24:31,780 --> 00:24:36,920
in the past, the language was
not something like a religion

356
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,200
to be taught, or to have books published in it.

357
00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:44,270
The Romani language was
the language of the poorest people.

358
00:24:44,420 --> 00:24:48,590
For two thousand years, our Romani
language is still here, still here...

359
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,740
No matter what country you are from,
we can still talk to each other.

360
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:58,130
I wish that the Romani language
would be preserved,

361
00:24:59,250 --> 00:25:03,940
that you would teach it to your children.

362
00:25:04,350 --> 00:25:08,940
But also that you motivate
them to live their lives.

363
00:25:08,940 --> 00:25:13,330
Let them do what they want, but let them
not forget who they are

364
00:25:13,410 --> 00:25:17,770
and who their fathers, grandfathers,
mothers, grandmothers were,

365
00:25:18,460 --> 00:25:22,520
let the Roma become a president,

366
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,160
let him never forget it, let him
not be ashamed of who he is.

367
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,080
That's all I wanted to say.