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I sing this song to you from my heart.
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I am first and foremost a singer, a musician.
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I am also...
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I've just finished studying
ethnomusicology and social anthropology.
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So I'm kind of in that academic world as well.
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And I also have my civic
association with which we do
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various educational
activities for young people
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related to art or music.
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So those are kind of my three current industries.
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I've been singing basically since I can remember.
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Really from a young age, my parents
pretty much encouraged me to do that as well.
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And very early on I started
performing in a folk ensemble.
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So that's what I think are mainly my origins,
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that I spent my whole childhood
in a collective, among people.
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With Slovak folk traditional music.
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With dulcimer music, dancing, singing
and stuff, so that was the beginning.
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Whether I come from a family
of musicians, I wouldn't say so.
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Although both my parents
played some instruments.
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My mom sang, she played the heligonica.
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And my dad played the violin and the guitar.
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And he also liked to sing, he
doesn't sing like that anymore.
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But neither of my parents were
ever professional musicians.
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They say that we're a singing family,
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but not in the sense that I come
from a family of musicians,
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that it's been our livelihood, our
craft for, like, generations.
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I was in a folk ensemble, as I mentioned.
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And over time I started playing the piano.
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Which added a lot to that kind
of musical appreciation for me.
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Also to my singing, or overall some
of my expression in music.
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Then, for a while, singing lessons at the
Art and Music School added to that.
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And so I was actually searching.
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I also started making up my own songs when
I was about 14 or 15 years old.
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That was such a nice age because
whatever I created then, I liked it.
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And the more experienced you were,
the more you knew...
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I still have this problem of being hard on myself.
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As far as creating something of my own goes.
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Then it happened that as
a gift from my family I got,
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I think it was for my birthday or Christmas,
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a workshop with the singer Ida Kelarová,
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which was actually my very first
contact with Roma music.
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And that was the beginning of
a very important stage in my life,
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which lasted for about eight years,
when I worked closely with her.
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Actually, I was the only non-Roma
in the Čhavorenge choir,
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where the rest of the members
were Roma children and youth.
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My relationship with Roma
music started in that choir.
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Although there, we didn't sing, or very little,
those traditional Roma songs.
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Rather, it was the contemporary ones.
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Later on, we started to cooperate
with the Czech Philharmonic.
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And we played mostly music written by
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Ida Kelarová's husband, Desiderius Dužda,
who also composes music.
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So it was more like contemporary songs.
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But I just experienced a lot in this group,
in this choir, with this Roma music.
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We had a lot of beautiful and
a lot of sad moments together.
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And we were really so connected in those
times when we were together.
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And that's what I feel is terribly
important, in any genre.
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It's important to experience a certain thing
with that music, so to speak, to get...
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Some will say that it's in the blood,
it's not in the blood.
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I think it's important to sort of experience
something with that music.
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To experience it in the moment
when it's really happening.
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I have the feeling that it would not be enough
for me to just listen to Roma music.
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Or that maybe I wouldn't interpret it as I do,
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if I wasn't looking for situations, places, people,
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where I could experience
it as if in its living form.
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Simply among other people.
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We kind of ended that collaboration
on that intense scale,
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when I went to England to study
ethnomusicology and social anthropology.
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And that was another important milestone for me,
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that I suddenly saw Roma music not only
in the context of Slovakia and our culture,
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but in the international,
so-called world music scene.
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Because for us it is Roma folklore.
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But when we look at it from
the international point of view,
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it's considered a part of that world music.
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Although for us it is traditional music.
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And I have found that this music has a great
potential to succeed in this arena as well.
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Because those songs are
catchy even for us, for Slovaks.
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But I feel that they are universally catchy.
There's just something special,
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that just grabs the heart of
a person from anywhere.
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Every singer, or musician of course,
has a desire to make a CD one day.
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Or just to make a name for themselves
and enter that professional world.
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And it happened to me as well and
I was wondering where to start.
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And what my debut CD should be like.
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And the most natural thing that
came out of it for me was this,
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that I'm close to the Roma culture,
I grew up in folklore.
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And of course, at that time I was already
searching for traditional Roma music myself.
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I was also trying to learn
the Romani language on my own.
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I was just completely into it.
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And it was the old, traditional songs
that appealed to me the most.
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So I decided that I wanted
to do those on my debut CD.
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And I was very much encouraged by my friend
who plays on the album, on the CD.
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He's a fantastic dulcimer player, Ľubomír Gašpar.
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And through him, or because of him,
I chose the rest of the band.
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Because he and the bassist and the violist are used
to playing together in other bands.
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Whether Slovak folklore and stuff.
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And we invited Viliam Didiáš,
the violinist, also for the CD.
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So that's how the band Manuša came into being.
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Or the name of the CD Manuša.
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But that's what we call it, that it's the band Manuša.
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So it was created on the occasion
of that recording of my first album.
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The Romani language, it came so very
naturally, I would say.
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Because at first I didn't know
what I was singing about.
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If I take those first years in the Roma choir,
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I just learned the songs the way I heard them,
the way they gave me the words.
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And it started out with
me noticing, for example,
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that this word was already in that song
and it's in this song.
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So I asked my friend from the choir what it meant.
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And I already knew the first word.
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And I already knew the first ten that
were the most used in the songs.
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And then, of course, what helped me, too,
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was that some of the kids
in this choir spoke Romani.
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Even in their families, even
there among themselves.
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But half and half, once in Slovak
and once in Romani.
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And when I saw a situation
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and I saw and heard what
they were saying to each other,
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I suddenly understood from the situation that ah,
so this must mean: what are you doing.
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This means: don't do this,
this means: get out of the way.
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And that's how I put it together.
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And later, when my interest was much more serious,
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of course, I was looking for material on my own.
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Whether it was dictionaries or
some textbooks, that sort of thing.
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Also, as far as those songs go,
it was important for me to know,
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if I wanted to do it at that level,
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to know what it's about, of course.
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I remember being very surprised
at the time, for example,
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that when Ida taught us a song
at my very first workshop
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and there was the word amen.
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And I thought it was some kind of prayer.
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It was also such a slow song.
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I mean, I felt like wow, that's actually a prayer,
I'm praying, so that's how I was experiencing it.
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And then after a while I realized that it had
nothing to do with prayer, but that it meant "we."
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So it was a surprise.
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Those first words, so definitely
it was "kamiben-love".
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Of the situational ones, it was "so keres-what are
you doing" or "ara-go away" and things like that.
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That was the kind of thing that was easy
to read off the situation,
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so I guess those were my first words.
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Of course, that Roma music,
if we stop perceiving it again
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just in the context of Slovakia,
it's incredibly diverse.
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And anywhere in the world, whether it's Romania,
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whether it's Russia or Hungary,
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the Roma music of that location
has a significant influence
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on the traditional music
of that majority culture.
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Whether it's in the instruments,
whether it's in the rhythms,
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whether it's in the sounds,
even in the speech, of course.
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When you take the Romani language,
it is not universal everywhere in the world.
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And those influences are also in the music,
in the language, in the instruments used.
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So it's hard to describe it,
if I had to put it into words,
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how is the Roma music in Slovakia different
from the traditional Slovak music.
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Because I don't want to stereotype either
of these musics or either culture.
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So it's hard to put it into words,
it's a little bit different for everybody.
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But the mutual influence, I would say,
is definitely noticeable for me.
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The traditional repertoire
that I perform, I feel like...
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I don't know if it's the fact that
I grew up in folklore myself,
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but I kind of have the best feeling,
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or I feel like it gives me the most
natural space to express myself.
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Either the sad emotions or the happy ones.
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Just those joyful, light, light-hearted emotions.
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And these songs speak to me very much, whether
melodically or just in that emotional way.
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And I feel that it's very well
received by the listeners.
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That these songs go right to
the ear, and to the heart.
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And really, the response when we recorded this CD,
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whether it was from Roma listeners
or non-Roma listeners...
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So these songs, but I also do
other projects, also jazz.
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But this genre has had the most
success so far, without question.
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Of all...
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Of all the attempts and bands I've had,
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this has the widest appeal to fans and listeners.
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Because my input or my realization
within Roma music and culture
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has been so fluid, from a very young age,
from the age of thirteen,
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so my family took it that way too, that it
gradually gained momentum and seriousness.
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So it wasn't some big break, that all of
a sudden, but it was gradual.
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I grew up with my dad and he was always supportive
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in whatever I chose to do.
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So he's kind of my number one fan so far, in anything.
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But what I'd like to mention before
that is that from a certain point
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I've been kind of my own
biggest questioner of what I do.
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Especially at the point where I was
already leaving the choir.
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Or when it first happened to me,
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that someone called me to sing
gypsy songs outside of the choir.
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Because that's when I felt much more like
I was going to market with my own skin.
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And that I was representing Roma
songs and culture as a non-Roma.
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And I'm no longer covered by being
part of the Roma choir.
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So it's OK, because there are 40 other Roma
men and women singing with me.
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And I'll fit in somehow and it'll be fine.
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But suddenly I was on my own.
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And by really trying to do it with
such reverence and respect,
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that I know what it's like, even those
completely unsuccessful attempts
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of the non-Roma to interpret Roma music,
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so I was just cautious.
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I was questioning whether I could.
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Whether it's too brash, how the Roma will take it,
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that what is this, that some gadji
woman is pretending to be a Gypsy.
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Or just what.
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So this had to pass, I had to admit
to myself that I had these doubts.
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And just process it somehow.
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Fortunately, my surroundings
tended to dispel those doubts.
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Even my Roma friends, even my teammates,
they were really rather supportive of me.
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And this also helped me a lot.
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Studying abroad
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My university studies in London
were very interesting.
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It was at this school called
the School of Oriental and African Studies.
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And there were people from all over the world,
just in that ethnomusicology department.
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Where everybody brought music
from their own country.
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So I got to know the instruments
and the sounds from the countries,
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whose music I had no idea about before.
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Whether it was the Indian tabla, the African kora.
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And interestingly, there was almost
no representation of Roma music.
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Only later I found that sometimes in the past,
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somebody had written a paper in school
about Roma music and so on.
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But as a subject this was not covered at all.
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So that was the kind of thing that I was sorry
that I probably won't find there.
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But on the other hand, I told myself that
the school was very open to anything.
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Also the school system is that whatever
we want to do, they'll support us in that.
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They'll give us that space.
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So I was making up topics for the essays
and the papers wherever I could.
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Of course I consulted with
those professors and so on.
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And what's amazing is that already
at the end of my first year
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we were gonna do a concert
at my school with this band.
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But the coronavirus came, so we did it online.
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And this online concert was broadcast there.
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Subsequently, those recordings
were posted online.
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And basically, also because
of the success of those recordings,
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we then decided to do that CD together.
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So.
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And this year, since I finished that school,
we were finally able to go there in person.
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And play the concert this time not just online,
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but to be right there and at
two other places within England.
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So it was a very nice experience.
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And for me, such a personal joy that it happened.
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Just connecting those worlds, I love that.
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Working with Romani music
during the studies in London
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I remember in my first year I chose a theme,
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where I discussed the meaning
of halgat songs among the Roma.
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And their kind of therapeutic function
in communities or families.
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And I was discussing it from
the musical point of view,
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certain expressive elements
typical of these songs.
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Or then the communicative and
social meaning of these songs.
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And now this last year I've been focusing,
which has been very interesting, on...
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Basically, I've done like two podcast episodes,
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where I was kind of debunking
the stereotypical view of gypsy music.
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For example, I started that podcast by going out
on the streets of London and asking people,
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what comes to mind when you say Roma or Roma music.
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Mostly what they said were
very stereotypical things,
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learned answers or opinions
without deeper thought.
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And I was just showing how wide the current
production and creation of Roma in the world is.
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That it's not just violin and accordion,
but that it's a really wide range.
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And I've been interviewing Roma musicians
around the world who have moved.
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For example, with János Kállay, a dulcimer
player from Hungary who lives in London.
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Then I travelled to Prague to see Zuzana Jurková,
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who, from an ethnomusicological point
of view, is working on Roma music.
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So I was working on this topic
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in interviews, in music samples, and so on.
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The current state of perception of Romani music
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I feel that this is in the hands
of contemporary musicians.
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Either Roma musicians or others
who perform Roma music.
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In what light the Roma music
will be perceived in general.
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I have also encountered many times that,
for example, Roma musicians
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mostly play Roma music for themselves.
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And as soon as they go to play, for example,
to the non-Roma, they play folk songs
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or they're adapting in some way
to the tastes of the majority.
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Rather, they don't
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present themselves sovereignly or confidently
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that we are a Roma band playing
Roma folklore and that's how it is.
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Rather, what I see there is that once it has
to go outside that Roma community,
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they'd better change it a little bit and adapt
it so that the non-Roma like it.
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And we'll play their 3 favourites
Ó poštáris, Duj, Duj
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and Why Will I Go Home, so they'll just "groove".
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And I feel that this is in the hands
of contemporary bands and musicians,
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to educate those non-Roma listeners that:
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"And we're not going to give you 3 of yours."
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It happens to us too, that we play
a gig and someone comes to us that:
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"Could you and do you know that Ó poštáris
or Gelem, gelem or Nane Cocha?"
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- And we say yes, we know them.
- And you could play that one.
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And we didn't play it.
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And it's not that we were
fundamentally opposed to it,
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but we just feel that there are
many other beautiful songs,
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that are worth playing, worth listening to.
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And to be known by the majority as well.
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The current state of Roma music
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Contemporary Romani music
in Slovakia, to be specific,
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I perceive that it is still evolving, that it is
still somehow growing, changing its forms.
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Of course, there is a certain
group of musicians, people or projects,
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who are trying to preserve those original
traditional songs in their original form.
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Without any big modifications,
which I think is very important.
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Even in this way those songs move
on and still get recorded.
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But I really like where it's going.
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I know a lot of people aren't...
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There are a lot of musicians who
do some contemporary interpretations
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of those traditional songs accompanied
by some artificial synthesizers, sound effects.
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Roma bands that help
themselves with some sounds.
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They make those songs more
modern, or even their own.
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That some people are opposed to it.
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And I'm just enjoying in a certain sense
even this kind of Roma music.
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I just think it just inherently
belongs to the era.
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It's a response to how music is shifting.
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Even in the world.
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I think it's a great pity that Roma music
doesn't have enough space
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outside of some Roma festivals or events,
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that are explicitly focused on Roma music.
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And I think there are a few bands,
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that are of interest to some
kind of commercial scene,
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or to a non-Roma audience.
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Who are notoriously known by everybody.
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And that's the first thing that most non-Roma
people say when they hear Roma music,
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they think of three names or maybe three bands.
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00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:34,180
And that's a great pity, because nowadays there
are bands that are making fusions with jazz.
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Who are just doing that pop music.
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That popular music or with guitars.
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Just beautiful songs that I think are
very little seen even at festivals.
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Even among the non-Roma population.
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And that's a shame, because I really think,
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that there are a lot of good Roma musicians,
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who are doing great work
and deserve more attention.